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jim's avatar

I really think everyone here is missing the point. People in the US DO NOT want to live in a socialist government. While people here use capitalisms as a slur, most people in this county like capitalisms. They want to own businesses, property, and a home. They do not want massive rates of taxation (which will be needed if we had 'free' health care and 'free' college. They recognize, that while government can help up to a point (but as many government programs have shown, like social security and Medicare, government programs are always expensive and wasteful) , ultimately a person is responsible for themselves.

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ron ridenour's avatar

Good response, Gilgamech. You hit the nail on the head, and with fewer words than what follows.

I think what we on the "left" need to do first is define what does "left" mean?

The Establishment (which includes the capitalist class and all its parties, military-covert intelligence/military, mass media, educational system) seeks to confuse the public by pretending they live in democracies where both right, center and left participate.

My understanding of "left" starts with the vision (theory) supported by strategies and tactics that seek an end to competition as a total way of living, to be replaced by cooperation as a total way of living.

That must start with the economy, which must therefore be based upon cooperation: producing and sharing what is needed for all humans while protecting all of nature. That requires the eliminatation of capitalism as the economy of greed, rich over workers and the poor. That means there would be no wars for profit.

Dave maintains that the "left" won in the UK, with a SIR as its leader. No way.

Keir Starmer did not even support Julian Assange. Starmer was part of the anti-labor Labour faction that conspired with the same fascist zionists now committing genocide against the Palestinians and smeared Jeremy Corbyn as an anti-semite--a total lie. Starmer wants Ukraine in NATO and loves killing Ukrainians ands Russians. Starmer blasts the far right Reform party leader Nigel Farge, who told the truth about NATO provoking Russia since the 2014 neo-fascist Ukrainian coup, instigated by US Democrats with UK Conservarives and Labour party along with the European EU Establishment.

Labour is as much for imperialism, supporting all US's wars, and capitalism, supporting greed and maintainiing poverty for a reserve army in case a real left might take the lead for a true working class struggle, which would aim to build real socialism.

France's New Popular Front is not even in agreement about bringing the proxy war against Russia to an end with, at least, proposing a negotiated settlement that must include Russia's right to a secure soverignty that cannot afford yet another imperialist power's lackey (neo-fascist Ukraine) inside NATO.

Democrats, with whomever in power, demand Ukraine comes into NATO, and then further with Georgia and so on until Russia is totally surrounded, isolated.

Russia is basically alone against 50 countries, as Biden brags. China is too chicken to help militarily. There comes a bit of military aid from Iran (drones that can't penetrate the targets) and North Korea.

Why is it that some far rightest, even Trump and Le Pen, want out of this war, want a negotiated settlement that would satisfy the basic need and legal international right for Russia to live in peace, with its sovereignty intact? President Putin asks no more than that, and his people back him!

Yes, Dave, there are other issues of importance. Some of those can be better addressed by liberal capitalists in power than if the right were in power. But we all die in a world war. While it is impossible to vote for the far right if one is really a leftist, as I have so defined, it is certainly foolish to believe, or even hope for, "liberal-progressive" governments to end capitalism's need for wars. Such foolishness will only maintain the status quo--permanent war, permanent poverty, permanent racism, which sometimes leads to committing genocide. Remember the 100+ treaties with Native Americans and Republican-Democrat governments while they (and the UK, Spain, Portugal, Italian, French++ imperialist-colonialists-slavers) massacred tens of millions of indigenous peoples throughout the Americas. Remember the genocide and enslavement of African-Americans...remember what I can not just now nor is there space herein for all the billions, yes, billions of people that private property based economies and political-military governments have caused since the beginning of "CIVILIZATION", from its begining some 12,000 years ago!

Vive Che!

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